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Wildstar Wildstar Business Model Revealed.

Love this! I'll probably sub for the first 3 months than work to extend my subscription through ingame gold purchases. I really like the type of model that they've chosen. Subs will provide Carbine with the necessary cash flow to support the development teams.
 
If they're making money off it I doubt they'll remove it
I really don't see the big deal personally. It's one of those "necessary evils" of trying to remove gold sellers. Giving a system that is naturally built in will help (not solve) the problem from growing too much. Giving Carbine the money instead of hackers and gold sellers is a good thing.

Of course, just like GW2, it will be cheaper in gold seller sites than in-game. That's natural. But risk of banning and all that sort is the usual "defense" to discourage people from doing it, and will turn to Carbine for Credd (at $20 bucks a pop)
 
It worked for EvE. So I´m quite sure it should also work for Wildstar. And if it does not, they can still remove it.

Eve never went beyond like 500k concurrent users, Wildstar aims to be quite bigger so imho it will be its own unique experience with that payment model and looking at EVE won't help much as they are totally different scenarios.

Personally I just wanted sub mode, I utterly hate this attempt to push in a form of f2p in their game... everyone is doing this since LoL has had its success except they don't realize that Moba and MMOs attract completely different crowds and are completely different forms of games.
 
I'm really happy w/their choice to go w/this model. I played EVE for a little while, but not long enough to see how PLEX affected their economy. The main issue I see w/the CREDD system is if players don't feel they're getting their money's worth for the gold being charged then they'll just go buy from the farmers, causing the CREDD system to wither. Hopefully this won't be the case though.
 
I love the idea of having a way to subsidize my game by being good at gold making. I also like that this is the only thing that is in the F2P model. Otherwise you get everything for the sub price(s)
 
Eve never went beyond like 500k concurrent users, Wildstar aims to be quite bigger so imho it will be its own unique experience with that payment model and looking at EVE won't help much as they are totally different scenarios.

Personally I just wanted sub mode, I utterly hate this attempt to push in a form of f2p in their game... everyone is doing this since LoL has had its success except they don't realize that Moba and MMOs attract completely different crowds and are completely different forms of games.


EvE is constantly growing. At a small pace yes. But it is growing.
And for Mobas, It is the same tactics that browsergames use: My friend over there has a better fruit, I can simply buy that fruit and have it to, or I can work for it.
 
Eve never went beyond like 500k concurrent users, Wildstar aims to be quite bigger so imho it will be its own unique experience with that payment model and looking at EVE won't help much as they are totally different scenarios.

Personally I just wanted sub mode, I utterly hate this attempt to push in a form of f2p in their game... everyone is doing this since LoL has had its success except they don't realize that Moba and MMOs attract completely different crowds and are completely different forms of games.


"Personally I just wanted sub mode" There is a sub mode but also this CREDD system. If you chose not to bother with CREDD that's your choice right?
 
I'm really happy w/their choice to go w/this model. I played EVE for a little while, but not long enough to see how PLEX affected their economy. The main issue I see w/the CREDD system is if players don't feel they're getting their money's worth for the gold being charged then they'll just go buy from the farmers, causing the CREDD system to wither. Hopefully this won't be the case though.
It won't wither though. It will fluctuate till it finds its level. That means Credd will be worth more gold if people buy from farmers more.[DOUBLEPOST=1376920281,1376920236][/DOUBLEPOST]
"Personally I just wanted sub mode" There is a sub mode but also this CREDD system. If you chose not to bother with CREDD that's your choice right?
exactly. You can pay as little as 13.99 a month and ignore credd.
 
I'm really happy w/their choice to go w/this model. I played EVE for a little while, but not long enough to see how PLEX affected their economy. The main issue I see w/the CREDD system is if players don't feel they're getting their money's worth for the gold being charged then they'll just go buy from the farmers, causing the CREDD system to wither. Hopefully this won't be the case though.
Ironically to my last post, there will be gold sellers who have actually hacked credit cards and will then sell the plex for gold to sell for cash. Long winded process, but it happens. Plus, there will be people that do not know or trust gold sellers, and will use the CREDD system because their time if more valuable than the 20 dollars of CREDD vs. the amount of time to work up the gold.

There will be CREDD for sale because there will always be people either too rich or too stupid (or both) to care about the "cheaper" solutions.
 
I don't mind the sub but I don't think I'll be useing CREDD because I suck at making gold in game although I would really like to
 
It won't wither though. It will fluctuate till it finds its level. That means Credd will be worth more gold if people buy from farmers more.

In the long term, that's possible too assuming people stick with the system. The other side of that equation that I really didn't think about at first, is how much it'll cost to buy x gold from the farmers. If they're offering a ton of gold for not a lot of money, it could be VERY cost-effective to buy from them and use it to buy CREDD. This would help boost the system as well.
 
I don't mind the sub but I don't think I'll be useing CREDD because I suck at making gold in game although I would really like to
Go back and watch our podcasts on GW2. Me and Tristan did a 2 part money making set of em. I think it was like episode 10 and 11. Many of the techniques and tricks from there can be translated to any game.

Or you could speculate like bruce did and hit the jackpot.
 
Can we get the article reposted in the first post? My company is blocking me from going straight to the source to read it.

From what I've heard from the posts, I think I'm in favor of this model. My only concern is that they will inflate the price of the monthly sub, taking into account that many will subsidize it with in-game currency. If I remember correctly, I paid $70 at a time for 6 months of WoW, which comes to $11.66/mon. I think $132/yr was mentioned earlier as a rate for WS. That's $11/mon, so right in the price range I would expect, at least for now.
 
Can we get the article reposted in the first post? My company is blocking me from going straight to the source to read it.

From what I've heard from the posts, I think I'm in favor of this model. My only concern is that they will inflate the price of the monthly sub, taking into account that many will subsidize it with in-game currency. If I remember correctly, I paid $70 at a time for 6 months of WoW, which comes to $11.66/mon. I think $132/yr was mentioned earlier as a rate for WS. That's $11/mon, so right in the price range I would expect, at least for now.


Here you go:
WildStar Online will not be Free-to-Play. It won’t be Buy-to-Play like Guild Wars 2, either. What does that leave, boys and girls? That’s right, you heard it here first: WildStar will operate via the classic subscription model, with a tasty EVE-like caveat Carbine is calling CREDD. Last week we caught up with Jeremy Gaffney to chat about the revenue model for WildStar and why Carbine is betting on the subscription model over the new hotness of F2P and microtransactions.
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First, let’s laydown the basics for you. The box for WildStar will cost you the now standard price of $59.99, which gets you 30-days of free game time, and three week-long passes for friends to try the game too. After that, you’ll have to pay $14.99 a month, or cheaper ($13.99 for three months, $12.99 for six, $10.99 for a year) if you pay for multiple months at a time. But the big twist that WildStar is throwing into the mix is that you still can play for free... if you’re willing to work for it in-game. That’s where CREDD comes in.

Not F2P Cash Shop Items.
CREDD stands for Certificate of Research, Exploration, Destruction and Development (cleverly “WildStarified” by the Carbine team). Basically, players can buy this month-long unit of game time from the WildStarOnline.com website itself, and then turn around and sell it in-game on the Commodities Exchange. Now the CE isn’t going to behave like some sort of bland Auction House. Think of it instead like a stock exchange. While Jeremy wasn’t able to comment much on what else will be available on the CE outside of CREDD just yet, here’s the explanation from the game’s official FAQ on how it works:
“The CX is unique in that when a player wants to buy a particular commodity, they will only be able to buy that commodity at the lowest currently offered price, with no awareness of who’s actually selling it. Once the stock of that commodity at that price is gone, players will then be able to buy from the available stock at the next lowest price.”
This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription. Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold.
I asked Jeremy, since other games have tried this like EVE, and TERA, what exactly struck a chord with Carbine about this model? Mainly, Jeremy believe that having CREDD in the game (PLEX in EVE, Chronoscrolls in TERA), allows for an interesting economy, and takes the notion of Gold Selling out of the spammer’s hands. This is a safe and secure way for players to make in-game gold, and for players to avoid subscriptions if they’d like. But why not Guild Wars 2’s model, which has recently proven so successful financially for the other big western NCsoft release? To this Jeremy said that it becomes really tricky with a B2P game to walk the line between not stretching development costs too thin while selling the right things in the store, and keeping content coming to the game on a consistent and interesting basis. He believes ArenaNet does amazingly with this, but that the model isn’t for them.

The subscription model, with their upcoming content plans for monthly large additions to the game, means that they have a steady stream of development income, and they can easily provide the content to reflect the value players who are paying $15 a month expect. Jeremy and I agreed that often F2P games wind up hitting players over the head repeatedly with “Buy Now!” offers flashing across the screen, and that this takes away from the experience. It’s funny now that the more traditional subscription model would be seen as the more sophisticated method of paying for your MMO.
This begged the question that a lot of our users point to: F2P games, while improving a great deal in recent years, are often seen as lesser quality than subscription games because of their “bargain sales” and sometimes being known as “Pay to Win” games. Jeremy said that there are plenty of games that don’t have to resort to these tactics: League of Legends, Dota 2, even Wargaming’s titles have turned a leaf and changed their business model to not screw their customers over. The important part about going F2P or Subscription isn’t the revenue model, says Jeremy, it’s “whether the game’s any good. Quality speaks louder than cost.” It doesn’t hurt, he added, that with a subscription model, players know they’re not getting part of the game, they’re getting it all.
I asked the Gaffer if he and the rest of Carbine would be paying attention to the soon-to-launch Final Fantasy XIV: A Ream Reborn, since it’s another game that’s sticking with subscriptions in an increasingly F2P market. His answer? “We’re not watching the competition too closely at all, really.” Why? “Because business model does have an impact, but in general good games do well. And we know what we have is good and worth that value. But more importantly, the elder game needs to be there, all the content needs to be there, the features list needs to be full. If we have those things, and we do, we’ll be fine.”
Jeremy also said that the key to keeping people coming back and paying more is to keep the updates coming. He believes too many MMOs that had subscriptions and later switched to F2P failed at this. Updates need to come on a frequent basis and be of a quality that feels like you’re gettng what you pay for. He pointed to GW2’s biweekly content, and how well it’s done to keep their players coming back. WildStar won’t be going as ambitious, but their monthly updates will be big meaty story-progressing content that really adds to the world and gives their players a lot to chew. He reminisced to his days back with Asheron’s Call (from Turbine, the company he co-founded). AC was almost “over-engineered” in Jeremy’s words, because they spent so much time making sure the tools to build content were easy and robust to they could add dungeons quickly. Players of AC will remember the breakneck pace of content additions, and in AC2 as well. WildStar is built from the ground up in the same way. That’s why there are systems like Warplots, Housing, Housing Dungeons, and so forth. He’ll frequently go on travel to attend a convention like PAX for the weekend, and when he comes back the team’s built something massive and epic. He’s confident that with the tools they have in place, they’ll be able to churn out update after update, and keep their subscribers happy.

Lastly, we talked about the dreaded microtransaction, and if WildStar would opt to also have a cash shop. In short? It won’t, at least not yet. They don’t want to close that door completely, but for now the only thing extra you can buy will be CREDD. If they add other MTX options, it’ll only be stuff that won’t screw their customers over. Cosmetic items, convenience things, and so forth. And with that, I let Jeremy get back to his very busy schedule pre-Gamescom and PAX. He did have one last thing to mention which is sure to upset more than a few hopeful players: WildStar's 2013 release has been officially pushed back to Spring of 2014. But the good side of the delay is that this means Carbine is serious about getting everything packed into the launch game, rather than doing so prematurely.
So there you have it, folks. Many of you have speculated, many have hoped for this, and now we have the details. WildStar Online will be subscription-based. No shady F2P model here, and no constant barrage of “sales” in some WildStore. What do you think about the news? Are you happy with WildStar supporting the now endangered subscription model? Will you buy CREDD? Let us know in the comments. Now all we need to know are those last two classes... and that pesky release date.
 
WildStar Online will not be Free-to-Play. It won’t be Buy-to-Play like Guild Wars 2, either. What does that leave, boys and girls? That’s right, you heard it here first: WildStar will operate via the classic subscription model, with a tasty EVE-like caveat Carbine is calling CREDD. Last week we caught up with Jeremy Gaffney to chat about the revenue model for WildStar and why Carbine is betting on the subscription model over the new hotness of F2P and microtransactions.


First, let’s laydown the basics for you. The box for WildStar will cost you the now standard price of $59.99, which gets you 30-days of free game time, and three week-long passes for friends to try the game too. After that, you’ll have to pay $14.99 a month, or cheaper ($13.99 for three months, $12.99 for six, $10.99 for a year) if you pay for multiple months at a time. But the big twist that WildStar is throwing into the mix is that you still can play for free... if you’re willing to work for it in-game. That’s where CREDD comes in.

Not F2P Cash Shop Items.
CREDD stands for Certificate of Research, Exploration, Destruction and Development (cleverly “WildStarified” by the Carbine team). Basically, players can buy this month-long unit of game time from the WildStarOnline.com website itself, and then turn around and sell it in-game on the Commodities Exchange. Now the CE isn’t going to behave like some sort of bland Auction House. Think of it instead like a stock exchange. While Jeremy wasn’t able to comment much on what else will be available on the CE outside of CREDD just yet, here’s the explanation from the game’s official FAQ on how it works:
“The CX is unique in that when a player wants to buy a particular commodity, they will only be able to buy that commodity at the lowest currently offered price, with no awareness of who’s actually selling it. Once the stock of that commodity at that price is gone, players will then be able to buy from the available stock at the next lowest price.”
This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription. Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold.
I asked Jeremy, since other games have tried this like EVE, and TERA, what exactly struck a chord with Carbine about this model? Mainly, Jeremy believe that having CREDD in the game (PLEX in EVE, Chronoscrolls in TERA), allows for an interesting economy, and takes the notion of Gold Selling out of the spammer’s hands. This is a safe and secure way for players to make in-game gold, and for players to avoid subscriptions if they’d like. But why not Guild Wars 2’s model, which has recently proven so successful financially for the other big western NCsoft release? To this Jeremy said that it becomes really tricky with a B2P game to walk the line between not stretching development costs too thin while selling the right things in the store, and keeping content coming to the game on a consistent and interesting basis. He believes ArenaNet does amazingly with this, but that the model isn’t for them.

The subscription model, with their upcoming content plans for monthly large additions to the game, means that they have a steady stream of development income, and they can easily provide the content to reflect the value players who are paying $15 a month expect. Jeremy and I agreed that often F2P games wind up hitting players over the head repeatedly with “Buy Now!” offers flashing across the screen, and that this takes away from the experience. It’s funny now that the more traditional subscription model would be seen as the more sophisticated method of paying for your MMO.
This begged the question that a lot of our users point to: F2P games, while improving a great deal in recent years, are often seen as lesser quality than subscription games because of their “bargain sales” and sometimes being known as “Pay to Win” games. Jeremy said that there are plenty of games that don’t have to resort to these tactics: League of Legends, Dota 2, even Wargaming’s titles have turned a leaf and changed their business model to not screw their customers over. The important part about going F2P or Subscription isn’t the revenue model, says Jeremy, it’s “whether the game’s any good. Quality speaks louder than cost.” It doesn’t hurt, he added, that with a subscription model, players know they’re not getting part of the game, they’re getting it all.
I asked the Gaffer if he and the rest of Carbine would be paying attention to the soon-to-launch Final Fantasy XIV: A Ream Reborn, since it’s another game that’s sticking with subscriptions in an increasingly F2P market. His answer? “We’re not watching the competition too closely at all, really.” Why? “Because business model does have an impact, but in general good games do well. And we know what we have is good and worth that value. But more importantly, the elder game needs to be there, all the content needs to be there, the features list needs to be full. If we have those things, and we do, we’ll be fine.”
Jeremy also said that the key to keeping people coming back and paying more is to keep the updates coming. He believes too many MMOs that had subscriptions and later switched to F2P failed at this. Updates need to come on a frequent basis and be of a quality that feels like you’re gettng what you pay for. He pointed to GW2’s biweekly content, and how well it’s done to keep their players coming back. WildStar won’t be going as ambitious, but their monthly updates will be big meaty story-progressing content that really adds to the world and gives their players a lot to chew. He reminisced to his days back with Asheron’s Call (from Turbine, the company he co-founded). AC was almost “over-engineered” in Jeremy’s words, because they spent so much time making sure the tools to build content were easy and robust to they could add dungeons quickly. Players of AC will remember the breakneck pace of content additions, and in AC2 as well. WildStar is built from the ground up in the same way. That’s why there are systems like Warplots, Housing, Housing Dungeons, and so forth. He’ll frequently go on travel to attend a convention like PAX for the weekend, and when he comes back the team’s built something massive and epic. He’s confident that with the tools they have in place, they’ll be able to churn out update after update, and keep their subscribers happy.
WS_Settler_Scientist01_t.jpg

Lastly, we talked about the dreaded microtransaction, and if WildStar would opt to also have a cash shop. In short? It won’t, at least not yet. They don’t want to close that door completely, but for now the only thing extra you can buy will be CREDD. If they add other MTX options, it’ll only be stuff that won’t screw their customers over. Cosmetic items, convenience things, and so forth. And with that, I let Jeremy get back to his very busy schedule pre-Gamescom and PAX. He did have one last thing to mention which is sure to upset more than a few hopeful players: WildStar's 2013 release has been officially pushed back to Spring of 2014. But the good side of the delay is that this means Carbine is serious about getting everything packed into the launch game, rather than doing so prematurely.
So there you have it, folks. Many of you have speculated, many have hoped for this, and now we have the details. WildStar Online will be subscription-based. No shady F2P model here, and no constant barrage of “sales” in some WildStore. What do you think about the news? Are you happy with WildStar supporting the now endangered subscription model? Will you buy CREDD? Let us know in the comments. Now all we need to know are those last two classes... and that pesky release date.
Bill Murphy / Bill Murphy is the Managing Editor of MMORPG.com, RTSGuru.com, and lover of all things gaming. He's been playing and writing about MMOs and geekery since 2002. He'll also be playing a Chua in WildStar because crazy little dudes are awesome, that's why. You can harass him and his views on Twitter @thebillmurphy.
 
"Personally I just wanted sub mode" There is a sub mode but also this CREDD system. If you chose not to bother with CREDD that's your choice right?

No the CREDD system inherently modifies the community.
Because now it starts as a "get CREDD buy gametime", then it becomes a "we have 100000 super casual GW2 style players using CREDD who DEMAND for an easier way to get game time, let's change it cause we'll make more money!" and poof everything goes to shit cause the flood gates are opened and a pretty much a F2P ends up comming out.
It will be INCREDIBLY hard to balance this system, because as soon as getting CREDD will become "easy" (and it will, as gold in any mmo becomes less and less hard to obtain), no one will use the subscription model anymore and hoopdy doo we have a F2P MMO with all the problems it brings.
That is why I wanted a sub only model, F2P MMO end up having terrible player bases just like Mobas, except in Mobas you interact 100000000 times less than in a MMO, ergo F2P MMO are godawful imho.

Yes, I am a negative nancy on this one.
 
Well, at the moment this is ONLY for CREDD. There is nothing else to buy. So while the market is similar, you can always just go back to paying the monthly sub like normal and won't have to bother with said market.

How do we know this is only for CREDD? To me it sounds like this is how the CX will function in general, similar to GW2, for all items bought and sold. If so, its going to keep the prices of everything way down just above vendor sell cost and make gold harder to earn.

On another note, the mindless community over at Massively is ripping this announcement apart due to their lack of reading ability and believing the monthly sub now costs $20. Its pretty funny.
 
It will be INCREDIBLY hard to balance this system, because as soon as getting CREDD will become "easy" (and it will, as gold in any mmo becomes less and less hard to obtain), no one will use the subscription model anymore and hoopdy doo we have a F2P MMO with all the problems it brings.


The cost of one CREDD is set by the player. The easier it gets to obtain money, the more people want to buy CREDD, the higher the cost will rise.
 
Remember that with the inflation of gold, the cost of CREDD goes up as well. It's normalized by the market and how much the market demands for it. It's a bit different in this case because the CREDD will cost $20, while a monthly sub will range between $11-$15 based on length of sub prepayment.

CREDD is the LEAST effective way to pay for a subscription in terms of cash. The cost of CREDD via gold will fluctuate based on the market. People will know that, due to the cost of CREDD in cash, it will not be EFFICIENT cash or time wise. But, what about the people that get lucky drops? Sell a rare item for tons of plat? Why not expand your gametime with the CREDD on the market?

I HIGHLY doubt this will be used by people who farm endlessly (unless this is their only way to pay for the game). It will be primarily used by people who gain an excess of cash easily (Market manipulators, lucky drops, gold farmers). The balance will come, possibly with some manipulation. I have faith that Carbine's eco-team will be able to handle it.
 
No the CREDD system inherently modifies the community.
Because now it starts as a "get CREDD buy gametime", then it becomes a "we have 100000 super casual GW2 style players using CREDD who DEMAND for an easier way to get game time, let's change it cause we'll make more money!" and poof everything goes to shit cause the flood gates are opened and a pretty much a F2P ends up comming out.
It will be INCREDIBLY hard to balance this system, because as soon as getting CREDD will become "easy" (and it will, as gold in any mmo becomes less and less hard to obtain), no one will use the subscription model anymore and hoopdy doo we have a F2P MMO with all the problems it brings.
That is why I wanted a sub only model, F2P MMO end up having terrible player bases just like Mobas, except in Mobas you interact 100000000 times less than in a MMO, ergo F2P MMO are godawful imho.

Yes, I am a negative nancy on this one.

The system should balance itself out, it'll just take a while to get to a price point that the both sides are happy with (assuming people stick w/using the CREDD system). The system will self-adjust for inflation as well, so as more people get more money, CREDD will cost more. Also, I think the reason there's such a stink around F2P MMOs is that most of the games that use this model are Korean. Those games are terrible regardless of the model.
 
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